Episode 49: David Niose – 2014 Secular Legal Recap

Gabe and Dan talk to David Niose and review legal issues in the US in 2014.

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David Niose is is a practicing lawyer, avid secular activist, and author. His 2013 book, Nonbeliever Nation, is about the growing population of secular Americans and their persistent under-representation in elected public office. His new book, Fighting Back The Right, is about driving human-centered public policy and combating the culture of anti-reason.

We discuss:

• Doe v. Acton-Boxborough Regional School District
• Burwell v. Hobby Lobby
• Greece v Galloway
• American Humanist Association v. United States
• US midterm elections

 

Episode 48: Abby Hafer – Unintelligent Design

Gabe and Erik chat with Dr. Abby Hafer about how the human body does not show the hallmarks of intelligent design. Plus, plenty of examples of better designs from the animal kingdom. And if you’re a fan of the intelligent design movement, be warned: they don’t come out on top in this episode.

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Thanks again to Dr. Hafer for taking the time to chat with us!

Show outline:

How Abby got involved in criticizing the intelligent design movement (4:00)

• Rebranding creationism as intelligent design
• Abby emails her minister about testicles, which he reads over the pulpit
• The human body provides a good vehicle to talk about biology to non-biologists

Intelligent Design does not do science; it is a political pressure group (12:20)

• Science is a method of investigation, not a collection of facts
• Science is really hard to do: experimentation, predictions, results, falsification, statistics, replication, peer-review
• The quantitative difference between evolutionary biology and intelligent design papers
• Hey, does anyone have a microscope? I’m trying to find my p-values!
• Why scientists are bad at politics and debating

Unintelligent design in the human body, and animals with better body parts (26:20)

• Bad design in the testicles
• Traveling to Maine by way of Utah
• Bad design in your throat
• Choking on a hot dog isn’t just sexual innuendo, it’s a serious design flaw!
• Bad design in your eyes
• Squid can see polarized light, and you can’t. Some pinnacle of creation you are…
• Bad design of the human birth canal
• Pain during childbirth isn’t from Eden-era punishment; it’s because you aren’t a kangaroo or a centaur
• Bad design in the fertilization process
• God is the world’s busiest abortionist

The implications of bad design in the human body and some common responses (1:05:25)

• These designs couldn’t really be better
• The design flaws are a result of the devil fiddling with the plans!
• God works in mysterious ways

Abby’s forthcoming book (1:18:45)

• “The Not So Intelligent Designer: Why Evolution Explains the Human Body and Intelligent Design Does Not”
• Why Soviet agriculture failed
• The politics and history of intelligent design
• Bad body parts
• Way more cool stuff!

External links:

• Your Inner Fish (Neil Shubin, 2008)
• Richard Dawkins explains the evolution of the eye
• The Clergy Letter Project
• Evolution Weekend, Darwin Day, and Carl Sagan Day

 

Episode 44: Daniel Dewey – Thinking Carefully About Artificial Intelligence

In this episode, Gabe and Dan have the opportunity to chat with Daniel Dewey about artificial intelligence (AI) and intelligence explosion. Daniel is a researcher at the Future of Humanity Institute, researching artificial intelligence, reinforcement learning, and how machines could have values.

Check out Daniel’s TEDx talk: The long-term future of AI (and what we can do about it)

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Some links to what we talked about:

• Asimov’s three laws of robotics
• Learning algorithms
• The power of intelligence
• AI already powers much of the world around you. See: self-driving cars, stock trading (they don’t always do well), medical diagnosis, and plenty of other industries
• Intelligence explosion
• The simulation argument; physicists trying to detect the simulation
• Humans don’t care about ants, and they get by just fine–until humans want to build things on top of their nest, or destroy their universe as we turn it into art.
• Bad predictions about AI, by Stewart Armstrong
• Steve Omohundro explains how easily an AI with mundane goals can go wrong in his TEDx talk
• So AI might turn out poorly for humans… How can we make a friendly AI?
• AI might also turn our unimaginably good, we just have to be smart about it.
• The Future of Humanity Institute, The Machine Intelligence Research Institute, and The Centre for Study of Existential Risk

The book we mentioned in the episode:

• Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, and Strangers – Nick Bostrom

Links to other people whose cool research came up in the discussion:

• Eliezer Yudkowsky
• Robin Hanson
• Eric Drexler and exploratory engineering
• Nick Bostrom
• Steve Omohundro

Thanks for listening!

 

Episode 43: Dr. Eric Meikle – Anti-evolutionism and Human Uniqueness

Continuing in their quest to talk about evolution, Erik and Gabe chat with Dr. Eric Meikle about the Nye-Ham debate, anti-evolutionism in the education system, and what makes humans unique in the animal kingdom. T’was a total blast, so listen up!

Dr. Eric Meikle is a physical anthropologist and the Education Project Director for the National Center for Science Education (NCSE). He has done a lot of awesome work in the origins of humans, and countering groups who want to bring anti-evolution material into science classrooms in the public schools.

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The show:

• The recent debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham
• Countering anti-evolutionism in the public education system
• What (if anything) makes humans unique compared to other animals?

Links:

• The Nye-Ham debate
• The NCSE (become a member!)
• Human brain size
• Dolphins using tools, (aside: they’re not so smart on land)
• Brian Hayden, and prehistorical religion
• Language in humans and other animals
• Do animals understand death?

 

Episode 41: Matthew Ferguson – Metaphysical Naturalism and Secular Humanism (Part 2)

We chat with Matthew Ferguson about metaphysical naturalism and secular humanism. It was a lot of fun and maddeningly interesting. This is part 2 of 2 of our discussion.

Matthew is currently a PhD student in Classics at the University of California, Irvine. He has written several scholarly papers about ancient history, and blogs about naturalism, secular humanism, and counter apologetics at his blogs Κέλσος and Civitas Humana.

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Our discussion covers…

What are arguments in favor of naturalism?

• Teleological argument for naturalism
• Argument from inefficient design
• Argument from irrational suffering
• Naturalism makes sense of the dependence of the mind on a physical brain
• Theism is fundamentally backwards in it’s model of the universe

What are arguments against naturalism?

• Naturalism isn’t falsifiable
• Pragmatic argument against naturalism: naturalism doesn’t properly motivate us to be good, whereas Christianity does
• Naturalism seems to assume that everything that exists in the universe is somehow empirically observable, which probably isn’t true
• Naturalism offers no basis for making or justifying normative claims
• If secular humanism is human-centric, then it is guilty of speciesism
• Alvin Plantinga’s evolutionary argument against naturalism

What kind of world do secular humanists want to create?

• A culture of regular self-reflection
• Criminal justice systems using rehabilitation instead of punishment
• Religion, it’s role in society, and how this may change over time
• The government’s role in a transition to secular humanism

Books references in this episode:

• Sense and Goodness Without God (by former guest, Richard Carrier)
• Warrant and Proper Function (by Alvin Plantinga)

Matthew was kind enough to provide a solar mass of really great resources for anyone interested in learning more about what we were talking about. Check them out below:

Matthew’s Blogs:

Κέλσος

Civitas Humana

Resources for Naturalism:

The Naturalistic Worldview

Defining Theism, Atheism, Supernaturalism, and Naturalism (by Matthew Ferguson)

The Secular Outpost: Arguments for Naturalism (by Jeff Lowder)

The Best Argument Against God (by Graham Oppy)

Sense and Goodness without God (by Richard Carrier)

Naturalism’s Support among Professional Philosophers:

Even If Most Scientists Are Atheist, Don’t Philosophers Come to the Rescue for God and Religion? Turns Out, No. (by Matthew Ferguson)

The Teleological Argument for Naturalism:

Finely Tuning a Killer Cosmos (by Richard Carrier)

The Fallacy of Fine Tuning: Why the Universe Is Not Designed for Us (by Victor Stenger)

Naturalism as the Best Explanation for Irrational Suffering:

The Evil-God Challenge (by Stephen Law)

Naturalism and Mind-Body Physicalism: 

The National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology: Biointerface Research Group

The Phineas Gage Case

Naturalism, Secular Humanism, and Ethics: 

Confused Metaphysics: Apologetic Efforts to Corner the Market on Ethics (by Matthew Ferguson)

Naturalism and Epistemology: 

C.S. Lewis’ Milk Jug: Apologetics and the Retreat into Epistemology (by Matthew Ferguson)

Evolutionary Naturalism, Theism, and Skepticism about the External World (by J. Wesley Robbins)

Plantinga’s Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism Refuted (by Stephen Law)

Critical Review of Victor Reppert’s Defense of the Argument from Reason (by Richard Carrier)

Dishonest Apologetic Debate Tactics:

Southern Evangelical Seminary Tricks Bart Ehrman after a Public Debate with Mike Licona

A Response to Cliffe Knechtle’s Campus Apologetics (by Matthew Ferguson)

Counter-Apologetics:

Counter-Apologetics FAQ (by Matthew Ferguson)

 

Episode 40: Matthew Ferguson – Metaphysical Naturalism and Secular Humanism (Part 1)

We chat with Matthew Ferguson about metaphysical naturalism and secular humanism. It was a lot of fun and maddeningly interesting. This is part 1 of 2 of our discussion.

Matthew is currently a PhD student in Classics at the University of California, Irvine. He has written several scholarly papers about ancient history, and blogs about naturalism, secular humanism, and counter apologetics at his blogs Κέλσος and Civitas Humana.

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We discussed:

• Matthew’s blog, interacting with apologists, and his response to the 10-42 apologetic

What is a worldview?

• Comparing worldviews
• Explanatory scope and explanatory power
• Worldviews used as a rhetorical tool by presuppositional apologists

What are metaphysical naturalism and secular humanism?

• What questions do each of these answer?
• How do they fit together and compliment each other?
• The relationship with methodological naturalism, physicalism, materialism, and atheism.
• The role of science in our knowledge
• Getting knowledge from science and history
• Can a metaphysical naturalist or secular humanist be religious?
• Making sense of minds, consciousness, shapes, numbers, propositions, and other abstract object on metaphysical naturalism

How does metaphysical naturalism compare to christian theism?

• Eschatology
• Rules to live by
• Agreeing about reality
• Authority
• Religion, religious experience, and the evolution of agent over-detection

Books we referenced:

• The End of Christianity (by former guest, John Loftus)
• The God Virus (by Daryl Ray)

Matthew was kind enough to provide a metric ton of really great resources for anyone interested in learning more about what we were talking about. Check them out below:

Matthew’s Blogs:

Κέλσος

Civitas Humana

Resources for Naturalism:

The Naturalistic Worldview

Defining Theism, Atheism, Supernaturalism, and Naturalism (by Matthew Ferguson)

The Secular Outpost: Arguments for Naturalism (by Jeff Lowder)

The Best Argument Against God (by Graham Oppy)

Sense and Goodness without God (by Richard Carrier)

Naturalism’s Support among Professional Philosophers:

Even If Most Scientists Are Atheist, Don’t Philosophers Come to the Rescue for God and Religion? Turns Out, No. (by Matthew Ferguson)

The Teleological Argument for Naturalism:

Finely Tuning a Killer Cosmos (by Richard Carrier)

The Fallacy of Fine Tuning: Why the Universe Is Not Designed for Us (by Victor Stenger)

Naturalism as the Best Explanation for Irrational Suffering:

The Evil-God Challenge (by Stephen Law)

Naturalism and Mind-Body Physicalism: 

The National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology: Biointerface Research Group

The Phineas Gage Case

Naturalism, Secular Humanism, and Ethics: 

Confused Metaphysics: Apologetic Efforts to Corner the Market on Ethics (by Matthew Ferguson)

Naturalism and Epistemology: 

C.S. Lewis’ Milk Jug: Apologetics and the Retreat into Epistemology (by Matthew Ferguson)

Evolutionary Naturalism, Theism, and Skepticism about the External World (by J. Wesley Robbins)

Plantinga’s Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism Refuted (by Stephen Law)

Critical Review of Victor Reppert’s Defense of the Argument from Reason (by Richard Carrier)

Dishonest Apologetic Debate Tactics:

Southern Evangelical Seminary Tricks Bart Ehrman after a Public Debate with Mike Licona

A Response to Cliffe Knechtle’s Campus Apologetics (by Matthew Ferguson)

Counter-Apologetics:

Counter-Apologetics FAQ (by Matthew Ferguson)

 

Episode 39: Bonus Lost Audio

Some of the funny extras from the episode with Raphael Lataster, and a salvageable section from our attempt at a Christmas episode that was lost.

And you’re right: in a perfect universe, this would not count as an actual episode. Sorry. Life’s not fair.

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Cool announcement: we have recorded some really great content with Matthew Ferguson, who blogs over on Κέλσος (Kelsus) and Civitas Humana. He’s got a ton of awesome content over there, so check it out and look forward to episodes with him.

Andrew, our guest to help us wage war against Christmas, can be found on his site Laughing in Purgatory, Twitter, and YouTube.

Additional links:

• Put the 10 Commandments back in the courthouse! Put it back!
• ‘Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia’ billboard set on fire

 

Episode 38: Ellery Schempp – Protesting Prayer in Public Schools

Gabe and Dan sit down with Ellery Schempp to talk about his experiences as a life-long secular activist. Ellery is best known as the litigant in the landmark supreme court case Abington School District v. Schempp, which brought an end to requisite prayer in public schools in the US. What a treat.

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The outline of the conversation:

• The requirement for students to read versus from the Bible in public schools in Pennsylvania
• Ellery’s initial protest by using the wrong holy book during morning devotionals
• Angst associated with suing your school over prayer during McCarthyism
• Religiously motivated changes to the pledge of allegiance
• Ellery’s principal actively trying to ruin his chances of being accepted to college
• Ellery’s participation in the Secular Coalition of America and the Secular Student Alliance
• The role that religious references play in the governing documents of the US
• Positive changes in the education system over the past few decades
• The work Ellery has done as a scientist and his involvement in science education
• The role of religion in education, art, and literature
• Secular/Humanist/Atheist organizations
• Some goals and directions for the future of the secular movement
• The fun adventuring Ellery has been able to be a part of

Links to some of the things we discussed:

• Not 10, but 613 commandments
• The American Civil Liberties Union: their site, and on Wikipedia if you’re not familiar with them.
• Unitarian Universalists and the separation of church and state
• Knights of Columbus meddling in US politics: Proposition 8
• Secular Coalition of America, the Secular Student Alliance, American Humanists, American Atheists, Freedom from Religion Foundation, Americans United for Separation of Church and State
• Other relevant court cases deciding on church and state:
  • Engel v. Vitale – prayer in schools
  • McCollum v. Board of Education – state funds paying for “released time” for religious education in schools
  • Lemon v. Kurtzman – sources of funding for religious schools
  • Town of Greece v. Galloway – prayer at public meetings
• Ellery’s humorous article: Warning: Gravity Is Only A Theory (a very good read, by the way)

 

Episode 37-B: John McCargar – Humanist Student Groups and Chaplains + Commentary

Gabe is joined by John McCargar to talk about Humanist student groups and chaplains, drawing from his experience founding the Humanists of Boston University (HBU).

Note: this is episode 37-B, which is the interview with commentary from Gabe and Erik interwoven into the audio. You can listen to episode 37-A, which is just the interview itself.

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The interview structure:

• John’s faith journey from Catholicism, to Mormonism, to militant atheism, to Humanism
• Building intentional communities focused on ethics and Secular Humanism
• Secular Humanism among religious groups
• Growth and decline of secular/humanist student groups, and the relationship of chaplains
• Previous guests on the show, Zachary Bos and Patrick, and their involvement with the HBU
• The cultural background of Humanism
• The role of a chaplain at a university
• Paths to becoming a chaplain, Humanist credentials, and The Humanist Institute
• Current chaplains at Boston University
• Why universities should consider having a Humanist chaplain
• Secular Humanists using the word chaplain

Books referenced in the episode:

• Richard Carrier expaining the problems of Christianity: Why I Am Not A Christian, and his contributions to The Christian Delusion
• Richard Carrier offering a defense of naturalism as a worldview: Sense and Goodness Without God

 

Episode 37-A: John McCargar – Humanist Student Groups and Chaplains

Gabe is joined by John McCargar to talk about Humanist student groups and chaplains, drawing from his experience founding the Humanists of Boston University (HBU).

Note: this is episode 37-A, which is just the interview itself. You can listen to episode 37-B, which includes additional commentary about the interview if you have the stomach for it. I would recommend you start with A.

Listen to this episode

The interview structure:

• John’s faith journey from Catholicism, to Mormonism, to militant atheism, to Humanism
• Building intentional communities focused on ethics and Secular Humanism
• Secular Humanism among religious groups
• Growth and decline of secular/humanist student groups, and the relationship of chaplains
• Previous guests on the show, Zachary Bos and Patrick, and their involvement with the HBU
• The cultural background of Humanism
• The role of a chaplain at a university
• Paths to becoming a chaplain, Humanist credentials, and The Humanist Institute
• Current chaplains at Boston University
• Why universities should consider having a Humanist chaplain
• Secular Humanists using the word chaplain